He also wants to see more evident cooperation among the organizations that finance basic and applied research and development, without the concentration of power that having one single research funding agency would entail.
The spheres of responsibility of Formas are of great interest just now, and on a blustery March day it was at last time for Sustainability to meet Minister of Environment Andreas Carlgren. The week before, the report on a new research organisation had been presented. And in the morning the demand of researchers for greater support for research on environmental pollutants appeared in the news.
What do you think of the idea of one single national research council that would be responsible for support for basic research, strategic research, development and the implementation of research results?
- The report is quite new, and we have not yet had time to discuss what our attitude to it will be. But I want to say two things. It deals with the necessity of creating a stronger relationship between basic research and applied research and to strengthen that interaction. I think that this is important. On the other hand, many research funding agencies would be gathered under the umbrella of one authority. This may pose a risk to diversity. I believe that pluralism is very important and that there are several different sources of research finance. I believe that this has an intrinsic value, with cross fertilisation and synergistic effects, but it need not be based on an amalgamation of organisations. It is not evident that a large superstructure will be a good solution.
Climatic issues and other global challenges must be approached with the help of interdisciplinary science. Would such a large research council be better at supporting such research?
- This is not obvious. Because with just such a large superstructure and less diversity there may be a risk that opportunities will be missed. What is needed is a concrete interplay among the agencies funding basic research and applied research where common strategies are really arrived at. I believe that this is essential!
There are three policy instruments which, according to researchers, must be effective so that climate changes may be tackled:
- tax on fossil fuels
- increased concentration on energy research and environmental research
- dear emissions through saleable rights.
What do you think of this assessment?
- We are now developing the use of all these instruments. As regards the emission of carbon dioxide, the trade is being developed with common European rules. We are lowering the ceiling for emission rights over the entire EU, which will have great significance. Another aspect is to raise the tax on fossil fuels. Those parts of the community that are not affected by the trade with emission rights will be affected by this. As regards research, my goal is to show, when the research bill is presented in the autumn, that climate and environmental issues are areas of the highest priority. And this applies to both research and development. When we talk of applied research, a further step is also needed so that the research results may be developed and implemented in society.
The Government has decided that Sweden, through SMHI and IVL, will participate in EU research projects in COST concerning air quality. How large is Sweden's commitment in this respect? And will further research investments in the field of air quality be made by the Government?
- The resources are taken from SMHI (the Weather fore cast) and IVL (Swedish Environmental Research Institute), but it is the Government that makes the formal decision in this EU cooperation. But this is an example of how important air quality research is. The Environmental Protection Agency, Vinnova, MISTRA, the Energy Agency and Formas are supporting a lot of such research.
What about studded tyres? Will they be forbidden?
We have received a proposal from the Swedish Road Administration which we are working on, and I cannot say any more just now. But it is absolutely plain that the emission of particles must be reduced in Stockholm which is one of the worst cities in Europe. I think the present situation is absurd.
According to researchers, research on environmental pollutants must be strengthened. Are they right?
At the Ministry of Environment we have highlighted research on a nontoxic environment and research on environmental pollutants as an important priority in the research policy bill. We will now have discussions with other ministries and see what we can do.
Since 1 March there has been a prohibition in Sweden on the use of phosphates in washing machine detergents. Sweden has been pressing this issue in the cooperation among the Baltic countries. A timetable for the implementation of the prohibition by the other countries will be presented in 2010. That is a long time. The research results are already available. What are they waiting for?
- We are not at all waiting for research results; we know already that this is one of the most effective steps we can take to reduce the discharges of phosphorus into the Baltic Sea. It has great environmental benefits at very low cost, and this is realised by most countries around the Baltic Sea. On the day that all the countries have prohibited the use of phosphates in washing machine detergents, discharges into the Baltic Sea will be cut by one fifth. At present there are one or two countries who are finding difficulties in stopping the use of phosphates. That is why we want to have a collective decision which is agreed by all the countries. This is a good example of how research results can form the basis for political action. In the field of the marine environment, research results are now used as the basis of political action, in the same way as the interplay that occurs in the UN Climate Panel between research and policy decisions.
How is new knowledge developed with the help of research dealt with in politics? For example, on the eve of Sweden's chairmanship of the EU?
- Climate will be a a high policy issue at international level, above all through the comprehensive work which was initiated by Bert Bolin back in the sixties and has been carried on by the UN Climate Panel since then. I hope that we will be able to bring about the same interplay between research and politics with regard to the marine environment. Marine environment and the climate will be issues of high priority in the research bill.
Traffic and transport issues are intimately connected with urban planning and environmental issues. Should not Formas have the responsibility for this research?
- This is a typical example of how the different research funding agencies must cooperate. There will always be relationships between different fields of research, and it is not always a good thing to change organisations or to reallocate responsibilities so that these relationships are all located in one organisation. What I want instead is that there should be close cooperation among Formas, Vinnova, MISTRA, the Energy Agency and the Environmental Protection Agency.
- I have great expectations that the leaders of the research funding organisations will establish collaboration, which is the best way of bringing about the necessary interplay between basic and applied research and development, without the need to create the concentration of power that one single research funding agency would entail!
In the construction sector there are a number of important environmental issues such as energy, transport, materials, environmental classification and environmental technologies. These issues are dealt with by different ministries. What is your view on this?
- This is a good example that cooperation is also needed in government. We have a good system inasmuch as all decisions in the government are made jointly.
How are research needs dealt with?
- The research bill is drawn up in collaboration among the ministries. I have responsibility for the environmental issues that relate to the construction sector, since I am minister not only for the natural environment but also for urban environment and physical planning. Energy, infrastructure and transport come under the Ministry of Enterprise, Energy and Communications, finance for the construction sector is dealt with by the Ministry of Finance, but all these issues touch on areas in which the Ministry of Environment has overall responsibility. What therefore happens in most cases with regard to issues in these fields is that the Ministry of Environment assumes the overall responsibility.
What is the position concerning the one per cent target for civil research in the bill?
- I believe that this is a very important goal. It is one of the goals where the coalition government is determined to make a very strong commitment. It had been planned that we would manage this by 2012, but I believe that the government will succeed in doing it earlier.
Perhaps already in the forthcoming research bill?
- It will be the most important step in that direction before 2012. I cannot say what the precise increase will be since that will not be clear until the bill is ready. But I expect that there will be a very large increase!